(this will be a hard post for some to read as it is almost pure red-pill. I pray those who read it will take constraint and think on what is written.)
In the course of writing “The Deification of Wives”, I mentioned that the general trend in society at large for a very long time is to exalt women and denigrate men. The tendency in Churchianity is to always find fault with the men and leave women alone, to the point of treating them as inherently good or sinless. As a result of this recognition, long-time readers will notice that I don’t spend post after post railing into men and affirming women in their pride as people in Churchianity such as Boundless and other places does.
This post will examine the cause and effects of these things. In the end result, the only conclusion that you can take is:
Men are at fault for these things, too.
Commandment I: Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3)
Commandment II: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:… (Exodus 20:4-5a)
As I wrote here, its not so much using women to bring down men, it’s men consenting to it by allowing their women to rebel against God. Of course, it’s the Devil perverting certain God-given features of men for his own use, but the root sin problem that needs addressed is on the men to repent of (worship and idolatry of women, along with vagina addiction). As Vilar writes (1):
The majority of men prefer to subjugate themselves to an exclusive deity, woman (they call this subjection love). This sort of personal deity has excellent qualifications for the satisfaction of religious needs. Woman is ever-present, and, given her own lack of religious need [aka the personal Jesus], she is divine. As she continually makes demands, man never feels forsaken. She frees him from collective gods, for whose favors he would have to compete with others. He trusts in her because she resembles his mother, the deity of his childhood. His empty life is given an artificial meaning, for his every action is dedicated to her comfort and, later, to the comfort of her children. As a goddess, she can not only punish (by taking away his sense of belonging) but she can reward as well (through the bestowal of sexual pleasure).
For those that are unfamiliar, Vilar is describing “the blue pill” as spoken of in the manosphere (and the exact dynamic of Marriage 2.0 fully followed). The “the red pill” is the acceptance of this truth and awareness of all the attendant machinations of forcing this to happen, and repenting of it. The causes and sources of this problem of idolatry will be detailed.
1. Men are brought up from a very young age to see women as creatures to be unconditionally served.
The second commandment mentions the idea of service. Men and women both are created by God with the tendency and desire to serve and worship Him. But men are brought up from a very young age to be pleasing to women, and this tendency is used to point men towards women instead of towards God with this desire.
Their mothers begin this in infancy as a function of convenience in service to the Feminine Imperative, and then it leads out from there into greater society. Young boys are presented with a creature that is different from them, who desires certain things from them and dispenses praise and punishment along with life provision. His mother becomes a god, in essence, and he ultimately requires separation from her to become fully actualized before God as a man.
Sunshinemary’s posts (#1, #2) about the AHG girls and the Boy Scout troop are a great example of such things that young men encounter. Then it goes into dating and into adulthood as the example I lifted out of The Manipulated Man on that post (2) illustrates. The training is done throughout and into adulthood to set men into an orientation of worship and servanthood to women and to train women to have this expectation of men. Ultimately, masculinity (or what it is to be a “good man”) becomes defined in terms of his usefulness to the women around him (3), being a slave to women is considered virtuous (4), and men go on to find happiness in their own subjugation (5).
2. Men lift up women beyond their true qualities by assigning qualities to them that aren’t true or neglecting to assign qualities to them that are true.
When young boys begin to grow self-aware enough to realize what they are doing, and that it is defined as “good” by their parents and greater society, then another behavior kicks in. To do these things, and maintain their self-respect, women must be defined in ever-glowing terms that aren’t reflective of their true nature in order to justify their subjection. (6) This illustrates that what we serve is a great reflection of what we worship.
This can easily be seen in all the descriptive terms used to describe women, such as a woman having “women’s intuition”, being “beautiful”, or being “the fair sex” (7), or even being “innately good”. It can also be seen in silence in not mentioning bad qualities of women, or even forbearing sin that occurs in them. It can also be seen in all the objectively dull things that men have done in literature and in music that are nothing but praises and odes given to the feminine god in the flesh that strikes their current desire of worship. This even crosses into current Churchianity with the worship of the personal Jesus as boyfriend, which is sung about in romantic and erotic terms.
(This got too long, so I split it up. Part 2 will complete the text tomorrow.)
(As I did here, I recommend The Manipulated Man if you are looking for a decent treatment of red-pill manosphere issues. While the book is secular in many ways and you probably won’t agree with the author entirely, she offers much to think about in the way of gender issues.)
(1) The Manipulated Man by Esther Vilar page 50. (2) ibid page 15-17. (3) ibid page 20.
(4) ibid page 44. (5) ibid page 47. (6) ibid page 35. (7) ibid page 36.
Excellent post, Ballista.
I probably need to read more of your past posts, but I can’t buy that we should worship an impersonal Jesus. Many may have messed it up, but the Scriptures clearly call for a very personal relationship with Him.
@BradA
The personal Jesus is as it indicates – “your very own personal Jesus”. What the problem ultimately is, is that the frame is wrong. Jesus is pictured as the perfect boyfriend (for you) that will satisfy all your needs (as you believe them). Hence it is a different Jesus than the one pictured in Scripture. He said “Follow me”, not “have a relationship with me.”. While there is a “relationship” per se, what He meant isn’t a romantic erotic relationship as the churches portray when phrases like “personal relationship”, “initimate relationship”, or “fall in love with Jesus” are used. These are all expressions of this false doctrine, which appeal to women and have been driven into popular doctrine by women.
Rather, Jesus meant a Master, Disciple relationship. The better comparison than the perfect romance that these phrases conjure up are old martial arts movies where the young guy goes to the Master of Arts and begs to be trained to fight like him. Jesus is the Master, and the training is in righteousness. This is what was innately understood when Jesus said “Follow Me.”, and fits fully what was depicted in the Gospels and afterwards. While it is a “relationship”, it’s the more proper one.
There are many posts that address the Personal Jesus on this blog:
The Personal Jesus
The Objective Jesus
In this recent post there is a selection of quotes illustrating the personal Jesus, along with a discussion of problems the personal Jesus has brought into some marriages.
The Gospel Is Not Preached In Church Today – the direct introduction of the personal Jesus, along with the effects and a video of a country song reflecting the problem of the personal Jesus.
Earning the Name “Christian” – a more detailed discussion of what I wrote above.
I’m sure there’s many more cites I’m missing, but that should cover the issue pretty well.
I might be mistaken about this, because I have not read it in a while, but as I recall, the book, “The Manipulated Man” – near the end, or the last few chapters, were simply anti-God.
I’ll look it up tonight.
Also, as far as the red-pill aspect of the book – well, I did not care for the book. Neither did my friend – http://notanmra.blogspot.com/2011/07/manipulated-man-by-esther-villain.html
I would not call that book a red-pill book.
Just my two cents.
But He calls Himself our bridegroom, our Father, what can be more personal than that?
My husband’s really against the boyfriend songs too and I love them. I think they speak strongly to women who desire love, but maybe to men who desire respect they seem foolish?
That’s what I meant by “secular in many ways”. The problem when it comes to most texts that will point out the problematic nature of Marriage 2.0 is that you won’t find anyone in the religious realm(s) who sees it for what it really is. This also happens to seem to be a topic the Church by and large is completely blind to (idolatry vis-a-vis woman and marriage), given the research I did do. So it’s hard to find any kind of good supporting data regarding the issue or anything surrounding it (like information surrounding “Christian” marriage counseling, for an upcoming post).
The book has its problems, I’d agree there. And I most certainly don’t agree with the entire book. The problem I’m presented with, though, is one of uniqueness. I don’t see anyone in the manosphere suggesting anything that’s better. Again, I’m not really seeing anything within the Church that nails the problem of woman worship and idolatry, specifically the occurrence within marriage. The reasons behind such a thing would fill its own post, but reading Podles will fill in most of those.
I’m aware of the books by Warren Farrell and Christina Hoff Summers, but they’ve been mentioned much less in regular MGTOW/MRM circles. But where, IMO, the book shines is that it presents much to think about regarding such issues (whether you agree or disagree, the opportunity for thought was where the recommendation came from), and for the purposes of the topic at hand for the post was the only thing I could find that really nailed the problem correctly and in any significant amount of detail. This is why there was a month’s time between the original post and this follow-up one.
@Sis:
“Boyfriend Jesus” songs are blasphemous and heretical. That’s the problem with them.
And “the Church” is his bride. Not us as individuals. (Collective, not singular) The thought process takes our Father, Lord and Soverign and brings him down to the level of f***buddy. *That* is highly troubling.
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@Sis:
“Father” denotes a position of development if you look at the Scriptures fully – the better term to search is the term “Sons” – which we all are in the sight of Him (yes even you Sis). For example:
The interesting part is that the term is applied to us in more a developmental sense compared to Jesus (same meaning but different stages of development). Regardless, the image of discipleship still holds, not erotic romanticism as Jesus and the Father is presented these days.
The boyfriend songs reflect the blasphemous and heretical false gospel of Jesus as the perfect boyfriend and lover for YOU (hence the personal Jesus) which has almost fully infected the church. As I’ve mentioned in many places, this appeals to women much more than men because it is well devised to meet a felt-need. While the women don’t see this for what it is, for two or three reasons, because it warps and twists the minds of all who accept it, most men (outside those who profit from it, or the weak-minded) see it correctly as the advocacy of a erotic homosexual relationship and rightfully stay away from it. Unfortunately, they are witness to how the personal Jesus destroys marriages for having to compete with the perfect boyfriend Jesus for the attentions of their wives, but that’s just another destructive effect of putting Him as erotic lover instead of Master as He presented Himself.
I’m a big believer in the personal Jesus, but I see that I need something much more substantial to back me up here, I’ll be working on this.
Ballista, if you haven’t read Warren Farrell’s book, The Myth of Male Power I highly suggest it. You won’t find a whole lot there to disagree with from a red pill perspective.
Sis- look at the board, where you might find your “more substantial”.
I think it is the phrase “personal Jesus” that I do not like. Too many people have a very impersonal relationship with Him and may even be headed to hell thinking they are doing fine.
I had a good alternate phrase yesterday, but I can’t think of it now.
You may notice that I contend (and observe) the opposite. Too many people have a very personal relationship with their personal Jesus and they are headed to hell thinking they are doing just fine. Among all the problems that a romantic erotic Jesus that you have a “personal relationship” and make love with causes (that’s a false gospel btw in the first place) is that the personal Jesus is not Jesus of Nazareth that Scripture tells us about. The personal Jesus you have the relationship with is the one that fits all your desires and all your needs and serves all those. The personal Jesus is the one that’s okay with everything that you do, lets you pick and choose what you are to follow, and doesn’t call you to repentance. The personal Jesus is the perfect romantic lover. The personal Jesus is YOU. BradA has his personal Jesus, Morticia has hers, Elspeth has hers, Ballista74 has his (not that I’m accusing Morticia or Elspeth of anything, the nicks were here and I used them as examples) – it’s all termed a personal relationship with Jesus – if it follows this system of thinking out. And following YOU, no matter how you choose to couch the terminology or think of it will lead you to hell. No questions asked.
This is why I brought up the issue of standardization. If we are Christians we are supposed to all be following the same Jesus of Nazareth in the way He prescribes. That way is NOT having a personal relationship with Him, but to put yourself under Him as a disciple. .You learn more about Him and know more about Him the more you conform yourself to Him and His image. That is what He proscribed all along.
And that’s where the blessings flow – my life got considerably better in Christ when I stopped trying to make love to the personal Jesus and started conforming myself to the Jesus that was born in Nazareth as He called me to do in His Scripture if I was to accept His sacrifice.
And the personal Jesus is why so many of the churches are so choked to death with sin and apostate.
You take an either/or stance and I don’t understand why it is necessary.
“Buddy Jesus” is problematic to the extent that it is disrespectful of His Authority and Kingship. that doesn’t mean that a person can’t be emotionally close to Him.
Also, I don’t see why the romantic parellel’s of female spirituality need to apply to men. It would be homoerotic to think of Jesus as your boyfriend, but it wouldn’t be to think of him as a friend, or an other brother (Matthew 12:46). Jesus was a friend to the disciples.
Even a wife who views her husband as her master can still have a companionate relationship with him. She knows he can punish her for rebellion, but she also knows he loves her.
The problem isn’t one of emotionality. God even calls Himself “Father”, which denotes a certain connection that we can have of an emotional nature. The problem, rather is slotting Jesus into a different role than what He set out. As He is a holy God, He will be the one that determines how He is approached. We’re told that Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life and no one will come to the Father except through Him. And how did Jesus present Himself? As a Master who took on disciples. So we should approach Him as a disciple waiting to be taught by the Master, and submit to His teachings so we may be conformed through the Holy Spirit (that was an error in my last comment). This portrayal of role is consistent throughout the entire New Testament, so it shouldn’t be hard to pick up on. There’s nothing wrong with being thankful, praising Him, or taking a certain emotionality into the interaction with Him in this light. In fact, I take great joy when He shows me something and get sorrowed when I let Him down. But always within the framework of that role.
Think of it this way, you can have the same emotional attachment towards your husband and your children. But each should occupy different roles, and it would be inappropriate to treat your son as you would your husband and vice versa. While you could call both things “a personal relationship”, the proper role is incredibly important and needs to be brought through. You don’t use that terminology with them, you say that you are “a wife to my husband” and “a mother to my children.”
We are told to call God “Abba” which I believe means “daddy,” so we can have a lot more personal connection that most realize. I have had a personal relationship with Jesus for over 3 decades now and I never once thought of it as a love affair.
You are really coming against an overly flexible Jesus, one that is made in our image. That is the problem, not my being able to personally talk with Him while I sit here and work on my computer.
I would ask exactly what makes someone saved in your view? What is the required steps? It is easy to through the “heresy” term around freely, but what does it mean to be true? Just taking the red pill, however valid or not, is not sufficient.
Now we come to the true issue. I don’t disagree with this and never did. The problem is the language “personal relationship with Jesus” often means something totally different in terms of role to most people. I have to use the prevailing language when I’m describing something, and “personal relationship with Jesus” happens to be the prevailing language that people use when describing “the love affair with Jesus as perfect boyfriend and lover who meets all your dreams, desires, and needs”. These are different for each person, hence the “personal Jesus” term. The Jesus you talk to can’t be different in standards and expectations than the Jesus I talk to. There was only and ever one Jesus.
The Gospel
I can’t recall ever hearing that in person. I have heard songs that I disagree with and talk about being in love with God in that manner, but I can’t recall anyone ever connecting that to a “personal Jesus.” Use the term if you want to do so, but it will still grate at me.
Perhaps it is because I grew up Roman Catholic and had a very impersonal relationship with God.
Though wouldn’t it be better to push to bring the focus back on the proper use of the term rather than just opposing it? Must “personal” == “lover”?
@BradA:
The term “personal relationship with Jesus” is actually quite old. In the old context, the phrase is meant to disassociate Christ from other religions. Christianity is very different, in that regard. However, due to the feminization of Christianity, the term has become ambiguous and they have shifted the definition quite heavily. Much in the same way having a “relationship” with someone has taken on a sexual context where the word actually is sexless in content.
And the truth is that a lot of us are actually outside of the mainstream Christianity. But if you spend time as the “mainline” sites, you’ll find this stuff pop up a lot. Maybe not in exact phrasing, but in the extent to the way they are operating with the conception of Christ. What used to be unambigous no longer is and they’ve infected the terminology with a very different meaning. This *is* intentional by certain parties, as they’d rather not give up the world but still want salvation.
On the cheesy romancing with Jesus songs, they’re really just cheesy romance songs that some, theoretically, Christian artist wrote. They operate no different in practicality, but their effect is deadening on the soul and the theology. If they want their love song, just make it that. The problem is much of the Christian audience for “Christian” works wants both the World and Christ, at the same time. You can’t have it, so we get Boyfriend Jesus. May God have mercy on their souls.
@BradA
Romans 10:9
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
@Looking Glass,
I have seen the “cheesy romance stuff” to at least a point, I just have heard the “personal” focus far longer than that has been around. It may be being misused, but I would disagree that the concept is wrong. I suppose that is my only point. Though I tend to look at the alternate. Using two completely unrelated words, personal and objective, connects for me less than apple and orange, because at least both of those are fruits.
@Joe,
I was asked ballista74, since he is the one deciding who is not saved and who is.
The Personal Jesus…..lot of misunderstanding here it seems.
It all starts with the silly expression “its not religion, its relationship”, and songs like “I am a friend of God”, add of course those with overly lover-ish imagery, and the picture of Jesus becomes something so limited and so narrow (ironically in an attempt to achieve the opposite) that it is meaningless.
The Personal Jesus is actually the woman worshiping him.
http://empathological.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/where-did-the-personal-jesus-tm-come-from-and-where-is-he-leading/
Thats my attempt to explain the Personal Jesus.
It has zip to say about whether you can pray while driving the car, or “without ceasing”. But reducing God to bumper stickers and turning scriptures into little cliches and printing them on coffee mugs is truly a step in the wrong direction, having also zip to say about who is saved and who is not saved.
Women are particularly susceptible to the Personal Jesus because they are subtly told they are more spiritual, and they are boldly told they are the more relational, so its a perfect fit.
If you read Poddles book you can track the whole Jesus as husband, quasi erotic, sometimes literally erotic nature of Jesus that manifests in these hideous love songs that replace true AWE and some fear and trembling (respect) for the creator.
I found it the case, often boasted from the pulpit even, that Catholics flocked to the mega church I was a part of for a decade. It was as if someone was modeling the “relationship not religion” by tracking the Catholics fleeing the cold impersonal Christ and finding the BFF Jesus. The mistakes are easy to see if you let your guard down.
The Personal Jesus is there to pander to your emotions, to make you FEEL good. Think through the sermon topics, the “3 point” sermons on how to handle stress/anger/fear/sadness, then look at the full gospel of Christ and see if that really fits. That someone lay in a dungeon starving and freezing, seeking comfort…..and some suburban wife whose husband isn’t “understanding her heart” seeking comfort. Does one translate to the other? Really? And what was the comfort the imprisoned sought? It was there mere knowledge of the awesome end game of the tale of the world, that in the end things be made right, it was NOT a Jesus that would rescue them from that days fickle bad mood or depression, it was that knowledge that would rip them out of the narcissism. The Personal Jesus feeds her narcissism, is a constant well spring of empathy, and an enabler of her each and every feeling and decision.
the Personal Jesus is SO understanding he is willing to even look aside, wink wink, and release an unhappy woman from her marriage, because the Personal Jesus wants her happy.
http://empathological.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/the-personal-jesus-tm-released-her/
I have been giving this issue quite a bit of thought, Ballista. The TC editors have also been discussing it amongst ourselves and Lacey has permitted mt to quote her:
Perhaps the issue Ballista is pointing out is the fact that modern Christianity has supplanted Godly authority with “feel-good” theology, and this often gets entangled with the personal Jesus concept. In the end, God is personal– we pray to Him, we ask for forgiveness, etc. I think the “personal Jesus” part is when people really believe Jesus is and only is their friend, rather than an authoritative figure who guides us with love. This love can be tough love or soft love, as He got angry, had harsh words and consequences, but wept.
I agree with her and I like her take on it. My struggle with the concept is a large part of what under-girded my thinking in the discussion with Mensch. The personal Jesus doesn’t set well with me largely because my confession of faith early in life did nothing to stop me from making decisions that were thoroughly out of step with one who professed Christ. Decisions that we have rehashed here and other places.
That said, the impersonal Jesus doesn’t set well with me either. My friend Morticia said it best. There is a clear delineation between the “personal Jesus” and the personal Jesus:
If you love Jesus, you love righteousness.
I think that is probably the best way for a person to examine themselves, rather than shunning the idea of a personal relationship with Jesus.
It’s very much a reframe of the terminology. A “personal relationship with Jesus” (i.e. prayer, confession and worship) is still a good way to understand it. But it’s become, due to leaving God behind in the theology, to “a personalized version of Jesus is your Buddy”. With the terminology infected, we should probably seek to use a new set. “Walk in discipleship of Christ” is probably the better place to go, for the foreseeable future.
That may have been what I was thinking of before. A personalized Jesus is more accurate for what is intended than a personal Jesus. Personal doesn’t require conformity. Personalized does.
Elsbeth,
The lack of accountability is the issue and the reason so many with a personal relationship could still act completely contrary to that relationship. They did not feel any obligation to righteousness.
The personal Jesus is self.
(hope this gets through moderation)
> The personal Jesus is self.
Why do you say that? This is only one interpretation of this and goes against the whole Reformation where the idea was that a personal connection with Jesus/God was possible (among other things).
I’m not saying that as theology. I am saying how it plays out functionally. Ballista cleared my comment above which was stuck because I put links in it I assume. I am not trying to be self serving, I’ve offered my own take on The Personal Jesus at length at my blog, and it comes from years of experience watching it happen, from being a new Christian 20 years ago, to parroting the “relationship not religion” mantra full throat myself, to cycling back and tempering all that because of where I’ve seen it go. I can only say that in the case of the women in the mega evangelical churches, the Personal Jesus has nothing to do with what you are getting at, its a tool of self rationalization and self actualization, its narcissism avoided by placing self into the image of a third party that its OK to be “all about”…..the third party happens to be the creator of the universe and who can argue if HE told her to do X, Y, or Z.
The language of “God told me”….”he laid on my heart”….all that is a sneaky tool for spirits we are not well to comport with.
I am not suggesting a personal connection is impossible. I do not buy we need a mediator in the body of a priest or proxy of any sort. You and I likely theologically agree. But you assume others are strictly adhering to a theological take on said relationship, when in reality its a psychological one. I do not claim to know this about any one specific person, but in the aggregate the behaviors manifestly prove that the Personal Jesus is a form of id.
Jhn 15:15 NKJV – “No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you.
I find the song you mention quite Biblical. In fact, being friendzoned is the opposite of romance!
We are talking past each other. Its how this functions in the minds and behaviors of the mega masses that is problematic, not that it is or is not a justifiable statement from scripture.
As it is today….holiness is lost, awe is lost, respect is lost, fear is lost, in their place are cheap temporal imitations lacking any sort of eternal perspective.
I think saying that men need to repent of vagina addiction is dangerous. Paul advised not to marry unless you couldn’t contain yourself. That sounds a lot like wanting sex so bad you can’t stand it, aka vagina addiction. Paul also wrote not to defraud each other less temptation be created. Why would someone be tempted from a lack of sex if there was not a degree of vagina addiction? Finally, calling “vagina addiction” bad is playing into the churchian feminist hands. A wife can now call her husband a vagina addict that needs to repent and withhold sex. At the least it gives ammunition to women and manginas to label vigorous male desire for a wife’s body as base or dirty, something to be ashamed of and beaten down.
@Jsr
Your comment is addressed here. Specifically:
The phrase doesn’t denote anything to do with sexual desire, but having enough self-control to not compromise yourself or your values. When you cease to control something and it controls you, then it becomes an addiction. The Churchian feminists WANT vagina addiction as it puts men into their control. Like a drug addict that can be pushed into just about anything for their next hit by a dealer, men not in control of themselves in this way can be pushed into doing things they might not otherwise do with the hope of getting some sex from the woman.
1 Corinthians 7:8&9 appears to contradict your statement. I understand what you’re trying to say, but the Bible seems to say otherwise.
Paul says stay single to serve God better UNLESS you cannot contain/control yourself. The Bible says to address the lack of self-control/containment by marriage not repentance.
@empathologism,
> holiness is lost, awe is lost, respect is lost, fear is lost, in their place are cheap temporal imitations lacking any sort of eternal perspective.
I will agree that having a personal relationship with anyone has the risk of losing the feeling of holiness and such. I have long noted that my ability to talk with God at any time has made me not quite as awe-filled as if it was not that easy. I would still take that over an “awe” experience where I had to live out my life by my own wits instead of being able to seek Him as I go about my day.
Note it is seeking Him, not just having Him validate what I already chose to do. Lots of content to that and it could be a blog post of its own. Perhaps I will at some point.
(Note that I posted this twice since the first was in moderation so hopefully that gets deleted and you only see this one with the proper name at the start.)
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